Jan. 29, 2026

Shadows To Light

Shadows To Light

Have a question or comment for Pastor Plek or one of his guests. Send it here. 379: A nameless voice, a battered past, and a purpose that won’t quit. Bruno sits with us to unpack how a jailhouse encounter with Jesus turned a prize fighter into a quiet force against trafficking from Oaxaca and Panama City to the airstrips of South Sudan. This isn’t a highlight reel built on bravado; it’s a ground-level look at the systems of exploitation, the cost to families who fight them, and the small fait...

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Season 4

Have a question or comment for Pastor Plek or one of his guests. Send it here.

379: A nameless voice, a battered past, and a purpose that won’t quit. Bruno sits with us to unpack how a jailhouse encounter with Jesus turned a prize fighter into a quiet force against trafficking from Oaxaca and Panama City to the airstrips of South Sudan. This isn’t a highlight reel built on bravado; it’s a ground-level look at the systems of exploitation, the cost to families who fight them, and the small faithful steps that move people from danger to safety.

If this conversation expanded your view of missions, trafficking, and what real courage looks like, share it with a friend, subscribe for Part Two, and text us your questions at 737-231-0605. Your voice shapes where we go next.

Support the show

00:00 - Anonymous Guest Fighting Trafficking

02:15 - From Jail To Jesus

06:30 - Chaotic Childhood And Military School

11:00 - Navy Injuries And Marriage Crisis

16:30 - Austin, YWAM, And Mexico Missions

22:00 - First Glimpse Of Child Trafficking

26:20 - Tragedy In Oaxaca And Grief

31:00 - Healing, Coal Mines, And Calling

35:20 - Backpage, Wyoming, And Cyber Reporting

39:30 - Driving To Argentina Via Mission Stops

45:00 - Panama Brothel And First Rescue

WEBVTT

00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:07.759
And welcome back to the Pastor Plex podcast.

00:00:07.839 --> 00:00:08.880
I'm your host, Pastor Plex.

00:00:09.199 --> 00:00:18.239
And with me today is a man who, well, if you can look at his face, you actually can't see him because we are what's the right word for that?

00:00:18.399 --> 00:00:27.039
Uh making sure you can't tell who he is, because he is an undercover anti-sex trafficker from across the globe.

00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:35.520
And so as our mission to reach people globally, we want to kind of give uh airtime to someone who is doing such powerful work, but not reveal who they are.

00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:48.000
Because we need to know, and America needs to know, and the world needs to know about uh what Christians do to reach those that are being uh sex trafficked, those who are being uh uh taken against their will, and especially in war-torn countries.

00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:52.960
So uh we're gonna call you Bruno because we don't talk about Brune, no.

00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:53.679
Oh, oh.

00:00:54.159 --> 00:01:01.439
So Bruno, talk to us, introduce yourself however you want, and uh talk to us about how you first became a Christian.

00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:03.200
Um so nice to meet you.

00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:03.920
My name again.

00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:05.200
Well well.

00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:07.760
Um I first became a Christian.

00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:10.959
It's funny, um, through domestic violence.

00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:11.760
Oh, nice.

00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:16.799
Uh, me and my wife Ash, uh, we had a fallout one night.

00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:22.159
Um, went to jail, and a pastor came to visit me while I was there and gave me the book Wild at Heart.

00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:22.959
Yeah.

00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:25.680
Um before that I had been in a cage.

00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:28.400
I my my past, I was like a manly man, right?

00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:30.239
I was into a lot of that kind of stuff.

00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:32.239
But it it like man, are you talking about cage fighting?

00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:33.120
Is that what you're about to say?

00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:33.599
Yeah.

00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:35.120
As one does.

00:01:35.599 --> 00:01:40.959
Um so uh but he gave me this book, Wild at Heart, and I started to read it and recognize myself and a lot of that.

00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:44.159
That was just really insecure.

00:01:44.239 --> 00:01:54.000
And and everything that I had done, which is a bunch of cool manly stuff, really was just to show to prove to myself and everyone else, hey, I'm a man.

00:01:54.159 --> 00:02:01.519
Um, but in reality, Jesus was the man, and and there's really no one more manly than him, in my opinion.

00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:03.439
All right, so talk to me about what your childhood was like.

00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:04.239
Let's go back to that.

00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:14.159
Okay, uh, so um my my dad was an immigrant and he he met my mom in the fields, like seven times.

00:02:14.479 --> 00:02:15.439
Like migrant worker type thing.

00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:18.400
Yeah, yeah, apparently like seven times because I've got seven brothers.

00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:22.560
So um and they were never married.

00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:24.400
They ended up splitting up when I was three.

00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:26.240
So my old man was from Mexico.

00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:29.360
He ended up uh getting deported and he got back in the U.S.

00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:30.400
because he joined the army.

00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:30.960
Nice.

00:02:31.120 --> 00:02:32.639
Um, became a citizen.

00:02:32.719 --> 00:02:34.080
He lives in Michigan.

00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:38.639
My mom also lives in Michigan, and I grew up there um from a long time.

00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:40.879
So dad's Mexican mom is German.

00:02:41.039 --> 00:02:42.240
German Hamburg, actually.

00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:43.840
Okay, like actually German German.

00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:45.439
German German, very German.

00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:55.199
And they met in uh so they the German side of the family owns a bunch of fields and vineyards and horses up in northern Michigan.

00:02:55.439 --> 00:02:55.840
Huh.

00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:58.639
And my my dad worked the fields.

00:02:58.960 --> 00:02:59.360
Yeah.

00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:00.240
Way to go.

00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:02.400
Yeah, that's that's wild.

00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:13.039
Married up, and then um, so they split, and I from that point it's very just traditional drinking, fighting, they didn't work out.

00:03:13.439 --> 00:03:15.199
My old man was a really mean Mexican.

00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:16.319
Did you grow up with him, though?

00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:17.360
I mean, like who'd you live with?

00:03:17.680 --> 00:03:23.360
So um when they split, me and my brothers stayed with my dad because my mom just kind of disappeared.

00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:26.639
We heard that she ran away and like she didn't want nothing to do with us.

00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:29.120
It turns out my dad grabbed us and he moved.

00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:33.360
And the migrant community has a way of moving where you don't know where they're moving to.

00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:33.919
Yeah.

00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:35.599
Um, and we were part of that.

00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:36.960
Uh so where did you go?

00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:39.840
I mean, like, this is crazier than the anti-sex driving.

00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:40.400
Keep going.

00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:43.360
Like, you're you're on the run as like how old?

00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:49.680
Uh so she left, I think, when I was three, and we ended up reuniting when I was eight.

00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:52.240
Um, through one of my sisters, actually.

00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:56.639
And uh, she had gotten a hold of one of my sisters, and my sister was like, You ran away.

00:03:56.719 --> 00:03:59.120
And she's like, I've been looking for the kids for years.

00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:04.240
We re we ended up connecting, and I ended up going with her.

00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:07.680
Out of all of us, I was the only one that went with her, so yeah.

00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:10.240
Okay, so growing up, did you have a stepdad?

00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:11.120
Ish.

00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:13.759
Um, there was a man named Hobby.

00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:15.599
Um, really cool dude.

00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:17.120
This is crazy too.

00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:20.560
Um, Hobby was this bigger than life character.

00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:24.639
I think he was like 6'3, but to a little kid, that's like five foot a million.

00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:25.199
Yeah.

00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:30.079
Um, and he was really my mom was crazy and he was crazy.

00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:33.519
And uh she ended up going to prison for stabbing him in the arm.

00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:35.040
Not prison, but I think jail.

00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:35.759
Yeah, sure.

00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:36.560
She did some time.

00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:37.279
Yeah.

00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:43.040
Um, and apparently, I've just recently learned she did you watch him stab her or her stab him and me?

00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:44.480
No, I was I don't know where I was.

00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:45.360
School.

00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:47.839
No, I think I was with my dad or something.

00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:48.240
Okay.

00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:52.399
I I don't really remember a lot of my young growing up very well.

00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:58.399
Um, and actually from there I ended up moving with my grandma and grandpa, and they raised me for a long time.

00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:00.000
The German ones or the Mexicans?

00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:00.879
The German ones.

00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:01.279
Okay.

00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:02.480
Do you speak German?

00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:03.839
Yeah, no.

00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:06.639
Ah, yeah, that's like Deutsch.

00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:08.959
Yeah, I don't spread into Deutsch.

00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:14.560
But um, yeah, and that's kind of like so my childhood was moving around, moving around.

00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:17.040
Um, just a lot of that.

00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:17.600
Okay.

00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:21.199
So a lot of Machschnell, a lot of, you know, hurry up, get it done.

00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:24.240
Yeah, we we definitely kept stuff in line with each other, you know.

00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:27.759
We weren't allowed to have stuff ugly and uh unorganized.

00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:30.720
Um, I had issues, uh, did fight a lot.

00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:34.079
Uh, ended up getting put into the military school for Brighton.

00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:41.120
In Brighton, it was like either go to Foster or go to this Brighton Academy, uh, which is like a young boot camp military school.

00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:43.360
And I think they put me in there when I was 13.

00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:44.560
How'd you do?

00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:45.839
Pretty freaking great.

00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:47.439
Yeah, yeah, it was amazing.

00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:51.199
Um, ended up becoming a prize fighter because it's that's just what I did.

00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:51.920
I fought.

00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:56.959
And when I was young, I became a prize fighter, joined the Navy for a little bit, went out to be a corpsman.

00:05:57.120 --> 00:05:58.480
I got injured.

00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:00.480
Um fighting?

00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:01.120
No.

00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:05.839
Uh actually, so there's the confidence course.

00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:06.160
Yeah.

00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:18.240
And my first injury was running the confidence course out in Chicago, and then we were cleared to go, and then I drew a green side billet, so I went to go through uh the FMF school with the field battalion, all that jazz.

00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:22.560
I got injured again, finished that, and then I got injured one more time and just couldn't do it.

00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:23.920
I was prone to injuries.

00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:34.399
Um, so then I got out, and that's kind of my heart has always been there because my dad was my dad taught us all hey, fight for this country because where we came from wasn't good.

00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:36.079
So stay here, fight for this country.

00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:36.959
This is a great country.

00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:37.439
Okay.

00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:41.279
Um, and that was largely my childhood.

00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:44.000
And and during that time is when I met my wife.

00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:47.680
I met her before I think I was like 17 when I met her.

00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:51.759
So you came from a high trauma, high crazy background.

00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:56.399
Kind of went to the got the structure at uh military school.

00:06:56.560 --> 00:06:57.120
Yeah.

00:06:57.360 --> 00:07:00.959
Then you graduate military school, you go to the Navy, more structure.

00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:04.879
Then you get out of the Navy, and then you meet your wife.

00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:08.000
So I met her before I went, actually.

00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:14.079
Um, in between there, I went to a school, an alternative school to get my degree or diploma.

00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:14.399
Yep.

00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:15.600
And I met her there.

00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:17.439
I remember walking through the hallway.

00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:19.199
She had this blue shirt, said Brazil.

00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:20.079
She was beautiful.

00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:21.439
I remember that moment.

00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:23.759
It was like, it was gorgeous.

00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:25.439
And you're like, you're the one for me.

00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:29.199
Okay, so then were you a Christian at the no, you're not a Christian at this point.

00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:30.079
Was she a Christian?

00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:30.959
Yeah.

00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:32.959
Yeah, she was dating you, it's probably not.

00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:34.000
Yeah, she wasn't.

00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:35.759
She was like your average American.

00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:36.480
Yeah, I'm a Christian.

00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:38.079
Okay, all right.

00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:40.720
So then how so how did you end up in jail?

00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:51.040
Um, so this is after the the Navy and all that, and I was drinking, I was fighting, and uh came home, and we had a child, Heather and I, or Ash and I, Heather.

00:07:51.199 --> 00:08:03.199
Well, and um so uh Mila's crying and I freaked out, and I was like, Stop her from crying, stop her from crying because it hurt me somehow.

00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:13.199
Uh and Heather was like, No, and I I made a mistake, uh, and I went to jail, and then it was in that jail that the pastor met me.

00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:16.319
Uh and then so you drilled your wife right there.

00:08:16.639 --> 00:08:22.319
Yeah, I in my head, I'm pretty sure I could be lying about this, I think.

00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:26.319
Um, I was trying to hit the wall just to let out steam.

00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:28.319
Yeah, to be like, oh, it's too much.

00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:30.000
I have to hit something.

00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:33.519
And um, yeah, so I ended up hitting Heather though.

00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:34.639
Oh gosh.

00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:38.879
And um, we were so we almost divorced right then and there.

00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:39.600
Yeah.

00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:47.759
Um not Christian, just you're like angry, a fighter, have a baby, drilled your wife in the face.

00:08:47.919 --> 00:08:48.320
Yeah.

00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:52.159
Okay, so all right, so then you you go to the jail, the guy comes.

00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:55.759
How did how did he know this was he visiting you, or is it just he's just randomly visits anybody?

00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:57.039
Yeah, he's a pastor.

00:08:57.120 --> 00:09:00.159
He went to the jail all the time to visit everybody and talk about Jesus.

00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:00.559
Wow.

00:09:00.720 --> 00:09:02.240
And uh had nothing better to do.

00:09:02.320 --> 00:09:03.679
I was like, hey, you want to play some chess?

00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:06.320
And he's like, Yeah, sure, let's play some chess to talk about Jesus.

00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:10.879
Uh he ended up forming a relationship with me and gave me that book, Wild at Heart, by John Eldridge.

00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:11.279
Nice.

00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:19.120
And I got when I got out of jail, I had one last fight, and um, Shamar Bailey.

00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:21.840
The dude beat me up so bad.

00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:31.360
And um, but after that, I took in um I took the advice of Eldridge, which is like go find yourself a wild place and climb a mountain and talk to God.

00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:36.080
And I was like, God, if you're real, then do something because I don't want to be around anymore.

00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:39.200
Like, I've my life's been a pretty rough roll of dice.

00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:41.120
Um, and that's where I met the Lord.

00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:42.320
It was like a montage.

00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:44.720
Like I remember super clear.

00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:46.399
I was like, you know, where are you?

00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:48.960
And he's and it was like, I never left you.

00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:56.960
And I had this montage of all these sucky things in my life that had happened, but how somehow I knew that he was protecting me.

00:09:57.120 --> 00:09:59.120
And he was like, You left me.

00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:03.200
And then I remember all the times when I used to punch people being like, Where's your God now?

00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:07.440
You know, and I used to make fun of Christians, and I just I was really angry at the Lord.

00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:14.960
Um, I would say that I was an atheist, but in reality, when I look back, it's not that I didn't believe, it's that I was just really angry.

00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:19.120
Um, but and that's where I became a Christian right then and there.

00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:21.039
Uh I repented.

00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:26.879
I quit fighting, started studying the Bible, quit doing everything wrong that I was doing.

00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:30.000
Uh I like I said, I had that one more fight.

00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:39.840
No, I had one more fight after that because that's when uh Heather came back and was like, she I was like, hey, here's my retirement fight, and we ended up shacking up that night.

00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:58.559
And from there, um, she was like, she said, uh, you were so vulnerable that I knew that you had changed, but it was because if you ask her, there was pre-fight, and when you're in the fight, you go into this like hotel or stuff, and everyone's getting ready and all that.

00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:00.480
And I was just sitting there reading the Bible.

00:11:00.559 --> 00:11:02.720
I was like, uh, I'm just here for the money.

00:11:02.799 --> 00:11:05.519
But in reality, I just want to know Jesus.

00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:07.919
Um, and that's how I became a Christian.

00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:14.559
And and somehow Heather came home and uh from there we flipped a flipped a coin and moved to Austin, Texas.

00:11:14.799 --> 00:11:17.360
Uh started going to church and get discipled there.

00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:17.840
Wow.

00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:18.320
Yeah.

00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:21.679
And that's that's literally how it the Christian thing came in.

00:11:21.919 --> 00:11:22.159
Okay.

00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:23.840
So where were you living in Austin?

00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:24.480
Mm-hmm.

00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:25.279
Where at?

00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:25.600
Like right?

00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:27.519
Uh Anderson Mill and Pond Springs.

00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:28.240
Oh, okay, yeah.

00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:29.039
Like right around the area.

00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:29.440
Okay.

00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:32.879
So so you're you're and how how many years ago was that?

00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:34.559
It was 2008 in June.

00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:39.120
Okay, so then, so you're living here, you got one kid at the time or two?

00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:41.039
We had one at that time.

00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:45.440
Um, and then we had another child here in Austin.

00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:49.919
Um, and from there we had heard about missionary work, and I was on fire.

00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:51.919
You know how you are when you first hear about Jesus.

00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:53.440
You want to tell everybody.

00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:55.919
Um, and we heard about a group called YWAM.

00:11:56.559 --> 00:12:02.720
And so our second was born, and we moved, she was like four months old when we moved down to Oaxaca.

00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:03.120
Right.

00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:04.639
And as missionaries didn't have to be.

00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:05.519
Then that's Mexico.

00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:10.399
Yep, yep, southern Mexico, just above Guatemala, Guatemala, Chiapas, Oaxaca.

00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:10.799
Yep.

00:12:10.960 --> 00:12:19.120
Um, did a DTS there, joined YWAM, and started doing uh work with the indigenous and the unreached out in the jungles out there.

00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:20.960
So what does that mean?

00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:21.840
Yeah.

00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:32.080
Um, so let's see, in YWAM, you do six months or three months of like class work, and then you do three months of practical.

00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:32.399
Okay.

00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:34.399
And their practical was in the jungles.

00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:38.399
Just we moved in with a Christian tribe, and a lot of the other tribes are unreached.

00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:44.240
And we would go there and we would help them build stuff and try to talk with them about Jesus and take care of and take care of needs.

00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:45.919
And what part of the world is this?

00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:47.200
That's in Oaxaca.

00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:47.919
That's Mexico.

00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:48.639
That's in Mexico.

00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:49.279
And where is that?

00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:51.679
Is that like you how far from Mexico City?

00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:52.720
Is that like super far?

00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:53.840
Was like Yucatan?

00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:55.200
How far from like somewhere I would know?

00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:55.679
Yeah.

00:12:55.759 --> 00:12:58.720
Um, so some people might know Puerto Escondido.

00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:04.799
Puerto Escondido is in Oaxaca, and then um it's where the where the peninsula is.

00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:05.200
Yeah.

00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:06.320
Okay, so how about this?

00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:08.080
It's one state above Guatemala.

00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:08.639
Okay, got it.

00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:09.840
So it's way south.

00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:10.559
Yeah, it's in the south.

00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:14.000
It's like the jungly part where the yep, like you're pretty much Central America.

00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:14.399
Yeah.

00:13:14.559 --> 00:13:15.039
Gotcha.

00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:24.799
Um, and that was where our eyes were kind of sort of open to the whole uh the the cartel buying stuff.

00:13:25.039 --> 00:13:28.879
Like they would protect these people, and all the indigenous would have their fields.

00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:32.960
They would grow drugs and stuff, and the cartel would be like, hey, we'll give you money if you grow drugs for us.

00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:39.919
But there was also like a hidden part of that, which we didn't recognize at the time, but that's the the trick.

00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:51.519
Your your sort of introduction to human trafficking, human trafficking was you're re with this unreached people group, and they make deals with the the cartels, probably not knowing what the cartels do.

00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:55.200
They're just like, hey, grow this crop, sell it to us, we'll pay you handsomely for it.

00:13:55.279 --> 00:13:56.320
They're like, sweet.

00:13:56.480 --> 00:14:00.240
They get that and they start rolling the the drugs to the U.S.

00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:01.759
or down south or all over.

00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:03.360
Uh most of it goes to the U.S.

00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:03.679
All right.

00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:05.039
So they're they're sending it to the U.S.

00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:07.440
And then at what point did you find out about human trafficking?

00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:12.960
Uh so okay, so the clearest part, and I won't forget, uh, I've actually got a picture of the little girl.

00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:24.879
Um, we were sitting in the downtown square in Oaxaca City, and we were sitting there with our little girls playing, and we're watching this other little girl, and she had like burn marks all over her.

00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:29.120
And I was I remember saying to my wife, I was like, Hey, what do you think happened?

00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:30.480
Like, I don't know.

00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:35.840
And then um we saw her collecting money and all this, and then we were just watching.

00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:54.480
Um, and then we saw her do like hand gestures, and I was someone else hand gesture, hand gesture, and I remember saying, 'Did you see that?' And she goes, 'I think I did.' And we sat back and we just watched and just watched, and we were like, 'Someone's like, she's speaking with hand code to somebody somewhere,' and that was our introduction.

00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:58.399
We were like, 'This girl's being forced,' or something.

00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:00.240
Maybe she's just doing it for her family.

00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:06.159
But that was our introduction the first time, and then we spoke with the leaders and said, Hey, this is what we saw.

00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:06.960
What's that about?

00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:23.519
And he was said, uh, a lot of the children are in orphanages, and people buy the children, they'll break their fingers and burn them and they'll put them on the streets, and they look like the children are really poor and hurt because they are, and they get a lot more money than just your average child who's in need.

00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:24.960
Wow.

00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:25.919
That's sad.

00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:26.399
Okay.

00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:32.240
So then you and your wife are like, we gotta do something, or like, you already are there, you're already doing something.

00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:35.039
We we actually didn't do anything about the trafficking at that point.

00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:40.639
We just sat and in a way, we were like, Mary, we tucked it away in our heart and was like, Oh, well, this is awkward.

00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:41.919
This is that's not cool.

00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:44.480
We're here to work with the indigenous folks.

00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:45.679
Um, yeah.

00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:50.879
Okay, so so you're working with the indigenous folks, you come back to Austin, you come, what will happen?

00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:54.720
Um, so when we were there, we actually had a son.

00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:58.399
Yep, and uh he got sick because of sickness.

00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:04.720
Wow, a sickness rolled through the the city, and our son didn't make it.

00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:07.200
Um, and that was really, really hard.

00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:08.240
How old was he?

00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:09.120
Uh he was one.

00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:11.600
So wait, hold on, you had a one-year-old son that died.

00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:12.159
Yeah.

00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:13.440
And um What was his name?

00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:14.240
Architels.

00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:18.879
We called him Nephtali because uh it's funny, it's so prophetic in a way.

00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:23.279
Uh, because you remember that he they named him that minute was like my wrestling.

00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:24.159
Yeah, right.

00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:27.360
And uh because it was a hard pregnancy, it was hard all over the place.

00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:32.399
Um, but that happened and we were shook, so we moved to the you we moved back home.

00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:36.960
And uh so you were in you were in Mexico, have a have a one-year-old that dies.

00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:40.879
You come back to Austin and you recover.

00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:41.679
Yeah, yep.

00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:43.519
We ended up moving, nope, not to Austin.

00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:46.720
We moved to Gillette and Georgia, uh Wyoming.

00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:47.279
Wyoming.

00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:49.279
Yep, and I was started working in the coal mines.

00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:51.600
You start you started working in the coal mines.

00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:51.919
Yep.

00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:55.840
Like, how did you you know, you're like, you know, from missionary to coal miner.

00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:59.039
Yeah, works work is work, doesn't really matter.

00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:00.639
It pays well.

00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:08.880
Um, and while we were there, we we got a lot of health care, not health care, but like member care, like working on just processing through stuff.

00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:12.000
Actually, this is probably I'm glad we brought this up.

00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:16.240
This is actually how we got into trafficking, anti-trafficking.

00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:20.880
Um so we were there working through everything and we started doing this organization.

00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:22.559
Um, I'm gonna stop report.

00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:24.799
You had a one-year-old son die.

00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:28.799
How did you like it?

00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:33.519
I mean, you come back to the states, you move to Wyoming, you start working in a coal mine.

00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:40.079
How did you process the fact that you just had your son who was one die?

00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:41.920
Uh, how many kids did you have at this point?

00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:42.720
Two.

00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:44.559
It just him and your daughter.

00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:48.319
No, we had uh my oldest daughter, my second daughter, and then we had a son.

00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:48.720
Okay.

00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:51.759
And so you you're the how did your daughters take that?

00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:54.799
I mean, how did just like how did that how did you guys process that?

00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:57.759
So my oldest daughter, it was difficult.

00:17:57.920 --> 00:17:59.359
It was difficult for all of us, right?

00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:01.920
It shook our faith, it shook a lot of stuff.

00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:07.920
Like, how did you I mean, like when you think about death of a son, you think, okay, God, this is a sickness, you could have healed him.

00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:10.880
What how talk walk me through how you processed that?

00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:17.920
So uh the the hardest part, I would say, and Heather, Heather and I, this is the hardest part for us, is like, it's our fault.

00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:22.079
If we wouldn't have been in Oaxaca, he wouldn't have got sick.

00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:26.880
And that was the big thing is like, Lord, did we is this because we weren't listening?

00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:30.880
Or is this because you know, it's and we carried that for a bit.

00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:33.039
I mean, like, he died because we were there.

00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:35.359
Like, this wouldn't have happened if we were in the US.

00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:38.160
And and that's that's a lot of guilt to carry.

00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:43.839
Uh, but thank goodness we have really good, we had a really good church and team that walked us through that.

00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:50.720
And then there's a bunch of other missionaries there, and they were walking us through like, look, here's here's how to deal with guilt.

00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:52.240
Here's what the Lord says.

00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:53.759
Maybe that was your fault.

00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:58.400
But in all in in reality, like things are gonna happen, you know, and the Lord is good.

00:18:58.480 --> 00:18:59.680
Romans 8.28.

00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:01.680
Uh, you know, and no, it doesn't really matter.

00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:07.039
For those of you who don't know that, Romans 8.20 is it's all things work for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose.

00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:08.640
So you're like, this is for good.

00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:12.880
Yeah, that was sucky because I don't, I think that's not the thing someone wants to hear.

00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:18.880
But you know, we had so many people come at it from so many directions and we went through counseling.

00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:24.960
Um, people were like, well, maybe your guys' life would have been worse if you stayed there, or maybe this or maybe that, or maybe the other.

00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:33.839
And yeah, I think that for me, the verse that sticks out, and I and I kind of go to this one a ton, and it's in from Matthew 10, I think it's uh 28, 29.

00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:36.960
Uh, a sparrow doesn't fall to the ground apart from your father's will.

00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:45.759
Meaning if God is in charge of the lifespan of birds, he's more even more in charge of the lifespan of humans.

00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:47.839
And so that's a predetermined thing.

00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:53.200
That doesn't res that doesn't take away any of the responsibility of like raising kids and doing the right thing.

00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:59.759
However, like if you if you're following the Lord to Mexico, um, you know, God could save your child.

00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:03.039
To Mexico as easily as he could save your kid in America.

00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:08.720
And and the same thing in Iraq when I when I'd lose soldiers and I was like, should I send him in the cemetery?

00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:10.400
Should I not send them in the cemetery?

00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:15.039
I know that it's a dangerous place, but you know, you're just wrestling with all the decisions.

00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:18.000
And so for you, was there a verse that spoke to you?

00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:28.400
Was there a uh or it was or just the process of God's people, the Holy Spirit working, God's word working, all three of those things kind of healing you.

00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:34.400
There, I I wouldn't say there's a specific verse, but what did it the most was just the community aspect.

00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:36.480
You know, God's people came through in a really strong way.

00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:42.880
And I think the what's important to hear that, like I don't care what struggle you're going through, do not isolate.

00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:46.960
Yes, because the healing happens with people, God's people.

00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:47.599
Okay, sorry.

00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:52.720
No, no, that's I feel like I mean that's like you drop that bomb, and for you, you probably have, you know, of course.

00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:56.880
And then I had a son died and everyone's like, so uh yeah.

00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:10.160
So you your son passes, you're in Wyoming, you're working the coal mine, you're you're getting healing, you're involved in a good solid church there, people are loving on you, and you're thinking, I'm you know, for me, I'd be like, okay, I guess we're done.

00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:11.200
I'm a coal miner now.

00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:13.680
Uh, but you were thinking I'm gonna go back to the mission field.

00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:18.160
So we actually started uh uh an event that's still going on today.

00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:21.440
Um coal miners make good money, right?

00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:25.119
Uh I you know when I think about coal mining, I really don't think about good money.

00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:27.680
I think of sooty faces and guys dying of some lung disease.

00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:29.759
Oh, yeah, it's not how it is anymore.

00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:33.039
Now, so over there it's strip mining, so we weren't even in the hole.

00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:33.920
Oh, okay, got it.

00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:34.160
Yeah.

00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:34.640
I was driving.

00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:37.359
I think of a canary, and you're like, oh, the canary's dead, we're screwed.

00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:38.319
That's all I can think of.

00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:39.440
No, it's it's cool.

00:21:39.519 --> 00:21:45.359
You get to drive huge Twonka trucks and in circles all night long, get paid for it.

00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:46.160
Oh, okay.

00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:46.799
Yeah.

00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:51.759
Um so uh we ended up starting so something called the Picnic in the Park.

00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:52.400
Oh, nice.

00:21:52.559 --> 00:22:03.440
And um, it was an evangelistic event, and it still goes on today where uh we were able to and our our heart never left wanting people to see who Jesus is.

00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:03.920
Yeah.

00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:12.079
Uh it's it was really hard, and there was like times when we were super angry, but somehow that never stopped.

00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:13.200
Yeah.

00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:16.000
And and so we did that.

00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:20.480
We stayed there until we had our our next child, uh our my youngest daughter.

00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:26.559
Um, and then I was like, we're done, and I got that taken care of.

00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:36.960
Um and then uh from there we just started dreaming again, and people started calling us, like, hey, you know, are you guys interested in going on the mission field?

00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:38.880
And oh no, let me go back.

00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:39.119
Yeah.

00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:39.599
Okay.

00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:42.799
So this is how we got into the anti-trafficking.

00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:49.839
One night when I was working, somebody called my wife and was like, Hey, baby, I'm in spearfish.

00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:51.039
You want to go over here?

00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:56.720
And she's like, and then and then she, I guess she said no, and she told me about it the next day.

00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:00.640
And then a couple days later, she got a text and her phone was next to me.

00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:03.920
And I looked, I was like, So what's this about?

00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:05.680
She's like, I don't even know what's going on.

00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:08.960
So we searched her number, and there was a website called Backpage.

00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:10.960
I think it was Backpage.

00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:18.319
Um, and there was a prostitute who gave out my wife's number in Spearfish.

00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:25.759
So when you live in a coal mining community, in an oil field community, there's a lot of prostitution.

00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:26.799
Oh wow.

00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:31.920
And um, we didn't consider that, and all of a sudden, all of these men started calling my wife.

00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:34.640
And we looked up the number, we saw the this and the that.

00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:39.200
And we reached out to YWAM, and there's something called Cowboys with a mission.

00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:47.519
And they said they're really big into anti-trafficking, and Gillette, Wyoming is a hub for human trafficking and prostitution.

00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:49.519
And so we started looking into that.

00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:58.799
We got connected, and that's actually the first time we started working in anti-trafficking, just by what we did there was we would go on backpage.

00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:03.759
Well, Heatherwood, because the girls are all yeah, you know, and that's not good for me to do.

00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:10.880
Um so she would go there and she'd just report everybody all the time, and she'd police Craigslist and report, report, report.

00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:14.559
Um, and that's how we got involved with anti-trafficking.

00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:16.160
Okay, so then you're that's in the U.S.

00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:17.039
That was in yes.

00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:18.400
Or it was it in Wyoming?

00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:19.119
Wyoming.

00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:22.799
Okay, so then you're like, okay, we we can make this a ministry.

00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:24.000
I mean, like, how did you think?

00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:25.759
I know I'll do a ministry.

00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:28.160
I mean, you're coal mining, you're making good money.

00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:36.720
Yeah, you're being a functional family, you're regrieving the death of your son, you're moving life forward, and this thing falls into your lap.

00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:40.640
You start to walk down the path of like, how can I help these girls?

00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:45.279
You get the police involved, you know, that might be a good time to be like, hey, we did our thing.

00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:46.799
We are good Samaritans.

00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:51.920
But the Lord calls you to Argentina, actually.

00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:53.119
Of course, yeah.

00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:55.359
And um, so we were like, you know.

00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:58.799
I don't know if you realize your life is more an adventure than anybody I know.

00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:03.440
You don't typically people go, and then I just was in Wyoming coal mining, and then I just was in Argentina.

00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:04.559
Well, what did you do?

00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:05.839
How'd you get to Argentina?

00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:06.799
We drove.

00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:15.519
Wait, wait, you drove from Wyoming through Mexico, down to Guatemala, down to Yeah, there's actually a highway called the Pan American Highway.

00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:15.920
Yeah.

00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:17.359
And we drove that.

00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:18.079
Okay.

00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:20.000
And was there a plan?

00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:25.200
Yeah, we wanted to take the uh so YWAM has a university.

00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:26.720
Got it, and they have counseling.

00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:27.200
Yep.

00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:29.119
And the cheapest school was in Argentina.

00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:30.720
All right, so did your wife speak Spanish?

00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:31.279
Yeah.

00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:32.880
Okay, so you both are Spanish speakers.

00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:33.279
Yeah.

00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:33.599
Yep.

00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:34.000
Okay.

00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:35.839
So you make your way down to Argentina.

00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:47.440
Well, well, that's actually part of the story, is so because we were in anti-trafficking, we there are bases, there are YWAM bases in every state of Mexico day near, and country for the moment.

00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:57.519
So we drove down and then we arrived in the first base, which was in like uh what is that across the Monterrey?

00:25:57.680 --> 00:25:59.279
Is that Monterey in Mexico?

00:25:59.440 --> 00:25:59.599
Yeah.

00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:01.200
Is that the very first state there?

00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:01.680
Yeah.

00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:02.240
All right.

00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:06.480
So we were there, and there's a YWAM base there, and we asked them about anti-trafficking.

00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:08.079
We're like, Do you guys have a problem with this?

00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:08.880
And they said, Yeah.

00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:12.240
We're like, hey, you know, how can we help?

00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:14.720
And so we started there.

00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:20.880
And we started watching, and this is one of the reasons why I'm so against illegal immigration, right?

00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:21.359
Right.

00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:27.200
Um, we started watching parents giving their kids up to these coyotes so that way they could have a better future in the United States.

00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:29.839
But they were actually being But they were being trafficked.

00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:35.359
I mean, trafficked is just moving them, but they're being sex traffic, trafficked to a well prostitution.

00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:36.160
We don't know.

00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:41.039
I mean, there so also here, something that's really big here is labor.

00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:54.240
They take the little kids and they use them for labor in working in the fields, they use them working in hotel rooms, they use them as uh like these are my kids, so now I get extra taxes, you know, tax returns from them, and they don't treat them well.

00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:57.759
And then a lot of the women, a lot of the little girls are, of course, right?

00:26:57.920 --> 00:26:59.519
They fall into the sex trafficking.

00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:00.079
Wow.

00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:15.599
Um, but we did that and we we went to uh every we would work in a YWAN base until it got kind of hot because after you start doing that, people get angry and you um and then we would move to the next state and then to the next state and the next state.

00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:22.480
And then where we kind of really got very much invested was in Panama, uh, because we had to ship our vehicle.

00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:24.559
You can't you can't cross the Darien Gap.

00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:34.240
Darian Gap is in between Panama and Colombia, where that little uh you have to ship your vehicle over there because there's uh the Fark and all of these What is a FARC?

00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:38.880
The FARC are these uh guerrilla warfare fighters, of course, and they hold on.

00:27:38.960 --> 00:28:00.559
I mean, this is where like when you said, Yeah, my story's kind of boring, and nobody really uh I'm like you're talking about terms no like you might as well have just said, like, I'm on a sci-fi space station meeting the FARC, and that's like uh, you know, like so all right, so the FARC, you're you're you know, you're like down in Darien National Park area of uh of like what Costa Rica or Panama City.

00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:08.160
You're you know, you're going to Costa Rica, then you're in Panama, down to Panama City, and then you're entering to Colombia and you have to get past the FARC, which is what's like give me the FARC.

00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:13.359
All right, so we we that it's okay, so that part sounds more impressive than it is.

00:28:13.519 --> 00:28:19.599
Um we bypass those guys because you're not allowed to drive through there because it's dangerous.

00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:21.839
So you put a fair your vehicle on ferry or something?

00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:27.039
Yeah, so you you go over in Panama and you have to ship your vehicle to Columbia.

00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:27.920
Yeah, that makes sense.

00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:37.680
Um, but there was there was like it somehow got caught up, and we stayed in a place because it was Uber cheap in Panama City called the Backpacker Inn.

00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:43.039
And this is so this is a kind of a crazy this is this is one of the crazier stories.

00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:47.440
So the backpacker in turned out to be like a brothel.

00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:56.000
Of course, but the rooms were cheap, and it was me and my three daughters and my wife, and we're like, oh God thank you.

00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:00.000
Wow, we are in this hub for human trafficking, like there are cold.

00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:02.640
So do your daughters know what's happening?

00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:05.119
So how old are they at this time?

00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:10.240
I would say Hadas was probably three or four.

00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:16.559
Um, and each one of my girls was three years after that.

00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:19.839
So so six or seven, and then nine or ten.

00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:26.000
Was your wife just like, oh, my husband was a prize fighter, I feel no fear, or like she's just a killer herself.

00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:31.279
I mean, like, give me the we um I think probably the first one.

00:29:31.359 --> 00:29:33.279
She said she always felt secure with me.

00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:37.119
Yeah, we actually did get in this fight where someone tried to rob us in Nicaragua.

00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:37.759
Yeah.

00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:39.200
Okay, tell me what happened.

00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:49.279
Um, I was so I was just north of Costa Rica, you just came through Honduras, but like through take goosey golpe or something, and as you're going down, you you cross the border and uh so we got in a hotel.

00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:51.839
We were staying in a hotel and I had to walk the dog.

00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:57.680
Uh so I let the dog out of the van because they wouldn't let they wouldn't let him in the hotel.

00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:03.039
And I was talking with this guy, we're all chit-chatting, he's nice, and I'm like, Jesus loves you.

00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:05.680
And I put the dog in the car and he sticks me.

00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:06.319
Whack.

00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:16.720
And he's like, I don't know, he starts yelling, and I'm like, oh, well that unfortunately for him, I like to fight too.

00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:23.200
And uh, so I went and I, you know, I don't remember what happened, but I remember that another guy came around.

00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:24.799
This is actually nuts too.

00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:28.160
Another guy came around the back of the van and I came out on top.

00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:30.000
I won the fight really well.

00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:34.160
Um, the police ended up coming and I got in trouble.

00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:39.920
And they wanted to search the vehicle, and we had extra funds under our seat, and the police stole our funds.

00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:40.640
Of course they did.

00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:44.319
And we didn't know about that until we hit like Panama, and we were like, well, let's pay for this.

00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:46.559
And we're like, go under the seat and get the stuff.

00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:48.079
And we're like, where is it?

00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:56.000
And I'm like, oh, that must have been why, because the police were really quick to be like, You're in trouble, you're in trouble, you're gonna go to jail, this, that, and the other.

00:30:56.079 --> 00:30:57.599
And then, oh, you're fine, go ahead and leave.

00:30:57.680 --> 00:30:59.359
And I was like, Oh, thank goodness.

00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:00.720
Well, you just paid yourself off.

00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:02.400
Like, I like what how much we're talking?

00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:04.000
Uh, like nine hundred dollars.

00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:04.480
Okay.

00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:06.720
Which is so not like thousands, but like but a lot.

00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:08.079
Right, yeah, yeah.

00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:09.920
Like that's probably that could that could feed you for a month.

00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:13.440
It could feed, it could, it could you it could have got us into South America.

00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:16.640
Okay, so you're you get through Nicaragua after now.

00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:17.920
Did you put the guy in the hospital?

00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.319
What'd you do to the dude that oh no?

00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:22.160
Uh they were still down.

00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:23.680
The one guy was down pretty hard.

00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:26.720
Uh you smash his head against the the uh the asphalt, yeah.

00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:27.039
Of course.

00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:27.680
Foot stomp.

00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:27.839
Yeah.

00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:28.400
Foot stomp.

00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:30.480
Yeah, I mean, you do gotta do what you gotta do.

00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:36.079
Okay, so you you smack take that guy out, he learns not to rob, uh, and then you go on your merry way.

00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:36.400
Yeah.

00:31:36.559 --> 00:31:41.440
Okay, so you, your and your wife, you're heading down to the brothel in Columbia.

00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:42.720
So we end up in Columbia.

00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:44.480
We were that's in Panama City.

00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:45.200
Okay, sorry.

00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:52.559
Um, so we were we were at there, and it was uh I I sincerely what cemented the rest of everything that we did.

00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:57.119
Uh I remember my my oldest daughter had a she goes, Dad, why is she doing what she's doing?

00:31:57.279 --> 00:31:58.640
Because we were really friendly with all the girls.

00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:00.720
Like, why is she selling herself for sex?

00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:01.680
Yeah, why is she wearing?

00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:04.240
Well, she what she actually said, Dad, why is she wearing that?

00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:06.720
And I said, uh, go and ask her, darling.

00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:09.200
And uh she went up to her and she says, you know.

00:32:09.440 --> 00:32:10.880
And your and your daughter speaks Spanish.

00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:11.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:12.799
Everyone, everyone speaks Spanish.

00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:13.039
Okay.

00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:16.640
And uh she's like, she's like, you know, my dad says you shouldn't dress like that.

00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:21.440
And uh, and this girl looks at her and it was amazing.

00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:23.279
She started crying and she's like, Mija.

00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:25.680
You know, she's like, Don't do this.

00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:27.119
She's like, I don't dress like this.

00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:32.240
And she kind of like got ashamed, and she told her, Look, I don't want to do this, and I don't this and that.

00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:34.400
And that right there cemented it for us.

00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:36.160
We're like, you don't want to do this.

00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:38.880
I know of a safe house over here.

00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:41.279
We can get you out of here, but you can't tell anybody.

00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:42.799
And she actually took us up on the offer.

00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:43.519
Wow.

00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:46.720
Um, and that was probably the first person that we got out of the trade.

00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:48.720
Okay, so how did you where did you take her?

00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:50.400
Uh so I can't say.

00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:52.880
Okay, uh, you you took her somewhere out of Columbia?

00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:57.839
Uh again, it was in Panama, but we took Oh, sorry, you took her took it in Panama to a different place.

00:32:58.079 --> 00:32:59.519
Yeah, out of Panama City.

00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:04.240
Um, to a place where there's a mission organization that has safe houses around.

00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:07.440
And we took her to one of the well did it give her like a new identity or whatever.

00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:08.079
Yeah, they did.

00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:32.240
They so what they do is they they they took her, they got her, and then they teach her, they take her to school, they teach her a trade, they work with there's a lot of doctors because uh when you get out of that, there's a lot of disease involved and stress, and so doctors and um so trafficking is interesting because uh I'm not sure what people think about trafficking, but there's there are a lot of different sides of it.

00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:37.599
There's uh law enforcement, which we you almost always, always, always work with law enforcement.

00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:37.920
Right.

00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:44.160
There's the investigation team, there's a cyber team, and then there's the there's the survivor care.

00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:45.119
Okay, right?

00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:54.160
Um and each one of those are super duper duper important, and um, so we got her to the survivor care aspect of it, right?

00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:55.599
Uh yeah.

00:33:55.920 --> 00:34:08.320
And but but it was there that we knew like this is what we're gonna do for the we actually we prayed this prayer that was like, Lord, if there's a place where this is going on and you don't have someone to go, send me.

00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:10.320
And we must have been reading Isaiah or something.

00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:10.800
Nice.

00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:15.039
Um, and and from there on that's kind of like what we did.

00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:20.400
All right, so you you you go, you that was in Panama City, you go down to Columbia, yeah, do it again there.

00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:20.960
Yeah, yep.

00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:26.639
So like you just went to Y Wham base after Y Wam base and be like, hey, we do this too, and we're on the team.

00:34:26.719 --> 00:34:28.559
And like who was supporting you?

00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:30.480
Like, how did you have food?

00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:32.960
Yeah, so the church supports missionaries.

00:34:33.039 --> 00:34:44.000
Uh so what happens, people out there in in podcast land, um, is you tithe and that tithe goes to the church, and the church supports mission.

00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:49.679
I mean, of course there are bills, but that money goes to support missionaries, and that's how we were able to do that.

00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:52.800
Okay, so how were you able to share Christ in those times?

00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:54.960
Or was that hard because they were kind of already Catholic?

00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:56.239
Or no, not at all.

00:34:56.320 --> 00:34:57.519
It was really easy.

00:34:57.760 --> 00:35:02.880
Um, we would go out there to the girls in the street and I'd come up with a coffee and be like, Hey, here you go.

00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:03.840
How you doing tonight?

00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:05.039
And she'd be like, I'm good.

00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:06.159
Well, you want some of this?

00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:06.800
You want some of this?

00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:09.840
I'm like, you know, you're beautiful, I appreciate that, but I want your soul.

00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:11.440
And they'd be like, Oh, that's scary.

00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:13.199
I'd be like, Yeah, but it's not.

00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:16.239
You know, Jesus loves your soul, and you're so much more than this.

00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:18.320
And we would just create relationships.

00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:25.039
Actually, there was a time when I was walking down the street, and this one girl, she started yelling, uh Grosarias.

00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:25.599
What's that word?

00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:29.519
Groseries, uh vulgarities, vulgarities, okay.

00:35:29.599 --> 00:35:30.239
That's nice words.

00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:32.480
She's like, uh, hey baby, come on over here.

00:35:32.559 --> 00:35:34.079
You want some of this, and blah, blah, blah.

00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:37.519
And her friend walked up to she's like, No, Mihan, no, no, not her.

00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:39.039
Not no, not him.

00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:40.159
Don't do it with him.

00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:40.880
He's our friend.

00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:41.199
Yeah.

00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:43.840
And I walked over there, I was like, No, I'm sorry, I don't want that.

00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:44.719
Would you like some coffee?

00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:45.679
Are you hungry?

00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:49.519
You know, uh what I don't have silver and gold, but I got some Jesus.

00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:50.000
Yeah, yeah.

00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:51.920
You know, um, and that's how we did that.

00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:56.239
And we would let always let him know, be like, hey, we love you, we this so you'd be the one interacting.

00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:56.639
Yeah.

00:35:56.800 --> 00:35:57.599
And what about your wife?

00:35:57.679 --> 00:35:58.320
What would she do?

00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:00.400
She's more of the survivor care thing.

00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:00.719
Okay.

00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:04.639
Um, and this is before we knew how anti-trafficking worked, right?

00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:08.800
We didn't realize that you're supposed to be working with law enforcement and that there's this.

00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:13.039
We were just like we were just like on the streets, baby, like vigilante evangelism, saving people.

00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:13.599
Yeah, yeah.

00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:14.800
Anti-trafficking Batmans.

00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:14.960
Yeah.

00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:15.679
You know what I'm saying?

00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:16.400
All right, I love it.

00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:19.840
And uh, and that's kind of what we did, and we would go out there and we'd talk with them and this and that.

00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:23.679
And that's why we had to leave so many states so fast because we were not doing it.

00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:27.840
We would start, people would meet us and threaten us, or we'd find our tires be slashed.

00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:28.239
Yeah.

00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:30.079
And then we had to leave the country.

00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:37.760
Okay, so you get down to Colombia, and then you're down to what Peru, then Bolivia, and then eventually Paraguay, then to Argentina.

00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:40.079
Well, how do you like tell me how like this happens?

00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:42.159
Like, how'd you eventually get down to Argentina?

00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:43.519
And then what happened in Argentina?

00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:51.679
Yeah, so um, we actually in Colombia, we picked up two Colombians, uh, also YWAMers, and they were like, Hey, can you just take us to Argentina?

00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:52.800
And we're like, of course.

00:36:52.960 --> 00:37:02.639
At one point, we had like nine people in the van and a dog, and it's way too much, but you know, Jesus, so you do things that you normally wouldn't.

00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:19.199
Um, but we literally just went from base to base, being like, hey, we'll sit out in public and we'll monitor and we'll look and try to find as much of this prostitution stuff as we can until you know we think it's uh not a good idea, and then we'll move to the next country.

00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:28.559
And then as that happened, they started like through the network, they started knowing like, hey, there's some people coming, get yourselves ready, they're coming over there to work in that country and that country.

00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:34.880
And then we ended in Argentina, where we did our school for biblical counseling.

00:37:35.199 --> 00:37:38.400
Okay, so kind of like, hey, we're going to this biblical counseling school.

00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:41.360
On the way there, let's knock out some missionary work.

00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:41.760
Yeah.

00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:42.239
Okay.

00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:50.400
So you you're saving people, people are coming to Christ, they're leaving their lives of being sex trafficked and being abused.

00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:54.480
And you and your wife and your daughters are like, we are moving the kingdom forward.

00:37:54.639 --> 00:37:54.960
Yeah.

00:37:55.119 --> 00:37:55.360
Okay.

00:37:55.519 --> 00:37:58.880
So then you're in Argentina, you go to school for counseling, it's in Spanish.

00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:04.000
And then then you're like, We are now gonna go where?

00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:05.760
Uh so we actually did two schools.

00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:16.639
We lived in Argentina for an extended period of time, but we did anti-trafficking um, because that was when um the Olympics went to Brazil.

00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:18.079
Oh, right, yeah, yeah.

00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:21.840
And of the Olympics brings a lot of that around.

00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:22.480
So yeah.

00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:24.559
We worked we worked the Olympics.

00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:26.079
So you went to Brazil.

00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:27.440
Did you learn Portuguese?

00:38:27.519 --> 00:38:28.800
Or did you know Portland and know enough?

00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:31.679
We speak portanol, which is like Spanglish.

00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:34.400
Yeah, yeah, because so there's a saying, right?

00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:38.719
Uh uh Portuguese español mala blah, which just means Portuguese is just Portuguese.

00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:42.960
Um, so we can get along.

00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:47.280
And so we were there and doing that, and then we had a call while we were working.

00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:53.840
No, we met a member who was like, Hey, um are you aware of what's going on in Africa?

00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:56.239
And we're like, no, no, tell me about it.

00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:57.119
I'm down.

00:38:57.360 --> 00:38:59.840
And they said, Oh, there's a civil war in Sudan.

00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:01.280
Wow.

00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:03.920
And we're like, oh, well, let's do it.

00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:16.880
And so we shipped our van from Argentina to Florida, uh, went back to the US to do some uh some counseling that we really needed.

00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:20.480
Um, and then within eight months, we were back in, we were in Africa.

00:39:20.559 --> 00:39:31.440
We live, we we first moved to Uganda to figure out how are we gonna move our family into Sudan and South Sudan, and then we decided that's probably not a good idea.

00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:37.360
Yeah, I have a friend of mine that is uh he ministers the Sudanese army, yeah.

00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:38.639
Uh, and it's wild.

00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:40.559
It is, yeah.

00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:43.440
And so actually, you know the machine gun preacher guy?

00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:45.119
Yeah, he's not far from where we live.

00:39:45.199 --> 00:39:47.440
We got to meet and we talked, and we yeah, here's some crazy.

00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:48.480
That's a great movie, by the way.

00:39:48.639 --> 00:39:48.880
Yeah.

00:39:49.039 --> 00:39:49.519
Oh, geez.

00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:50.079
Okay, all right.

00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:53.199
So, all right, so you're you now are in Africa.

00:39:53.599 --> 00:39:56.480
Uh you're in Uganda, speaking Swahili.

00:39:56.639 --> 00:40:01.119
Uh uh nope, so Uganda, they speak Luganda, which is a Another funny story.

00:40:01.199 --> 00:40:06.480
We when they told us we were gonna go there, we learned Luganda, which is the national language outside of English.

00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:06.800
Yep.

00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:12.320
Turns out the area where we were moving to speaks Lugbar, they don't even speak Luganda.

00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:14.239
So we spent like eight months learning the wrong language.

00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:15.280
Oh, nice.

00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:19.599
Yeah, but um, you know, if I'm a new fiddle, yeah.

00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:21.760
It just means can I have five pieces of bread?

00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:22.159
Nice.

00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:24.079
So you get to Uganda.

00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:26.079
So you're not like on Lake Victoria, are you?

00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:28.800
No, no, we were up there on the border of South Sudan.

00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:29.280
Okay, yeah.

00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:36.719
So that like the the Victoria, just my buddies were uh there, and they that's where they could speak Swahili because it connects Tanzania and Kenya.

00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:41.360
All the military, all the military, uh they all speak Swahili.

00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:41.760
Yeah, okay.

00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:42.880
Like that's East Africa.

00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:44.079
East Africa, yeah.

00:40:44.320 --> 00:40:46.960
Okay, so you now you're in Uganda.

00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:51.920
You're you're thinking about how am I gonna get into South Sudan and how am I gonna be a part.

00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:55.119
Are you are you are you carrying weapons at this point?

00:40:55.519 --> 00:40:57.920
So that's the introduction to all of that.

00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:02.320
Um, we show up there and we're like, hey, we're anti-traffickers.

00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:05.280
And people are like, no, not really.

00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:06.000
Not here.

00:41:06.239 --> 00:41:06.559
Yeah.

00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:15.039
And um, so then I started meeting um a bunch of people uh and in that field, there's a lot of ex-military.

00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:21.039
Um, and we bonded over my brief time in the Navy, and um they sent me back home to do some training.

00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:25.519
Then we went Wait, wait, you alone home or you as the fam home?

00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:26.800
Me alone home.

00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:33.360
So the re your wife and your kids are hanging out in Uganda, whether you're going back for a two-week course on firearms training or what?

00:41:33.519 --> 00:41:40.320
It was actually a two-month course on um the firearms interrogation and all of this different stuff.

00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:45.119
But my but my wife and kids were back with YWAM doing mission work there.

00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:49.440
Oh which in hindsight was the beginning of a bad thing.

00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:50.079
Why?

00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:51.920
I shouldn't have left him behind.

00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:57.599
Okay, just it was the beginning of a precedent set that eventually probably tore us apart.

00:41:58.719 --> 00:41:58.960
Yeah.

00:41:59.280 --> 00:41:59.679
Why so?

00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:00.719
Why you why you say that?

00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:02.400
Because I'm divorced now.

00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:04.239
Yeah, right, right, right.

00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:07.679
But like because you I mean, like that was all part of the mission, right?

00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:11.519
So I thought it was you know, guys also get deployed in the military for 12 months.

00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:16.639
So what made your redeployment for two months different?

00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:19.840
What was the part that that you feel like was not healthy?

00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:25.280
Um, I think it wasn't healthy because roles were pushed on her that shouldn't have been.

00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:25.760
Uh-huh.

00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:29.840
And then slowly, slowly, slowly we started working different roles in different roles.

00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:34.159
And that's and reintegration created huge, huge usually creates huge crisis.

00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:38.159
Well, and and it all culminated to the time when we were in Ukraine, right?

00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:50.960
Um, we had completely different ministries in Ukraine where she was uh doing one thing, I was doing another, and it was okay because slowly from that time in Uganda, we started separating and running different ministries.

00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:52.320
Yeah, got it.

00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:56.880
But it it it meshed really well until later on when it didn't.

00:42:57.199 --> 00:42:58.800
Okay, so you're still in Uganda.

00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:01.679
You get do you ever get to South Sudan?

00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:02.239
Yeah.

00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:04.239
Okay, and you start doing what there?

00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:10.800
Uh so I I was attached to a team because I was medically trained and I my medical training was pretty good.

00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:15.360
Um, and I I how would I say this?

00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:19.599
So the girls would stay on this side, and I was attached to a unit that was doing extractions.

00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:22.480
And we would fly over there and do extractions, and there were three levels.

00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:25.679
We say fly over helicopter, small airplanes.

00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:26.880
Were you jumping in?

00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:27.920
Were you fast roping?

00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:28.480
What were you doing?

00:43:28.719 --> 00:43:32.960
We were we so the planes would come and they would touch down, and there would be a security perimeter.

00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:50.480
There were three levels there's an outer security perimeter, an inner security perimeter, and then there's the people on the plane getting the kids onto these helicopters, and then the helicopter would take off, and then a secondary the convoy would come in, and these guys would all slowly come back onto the convoy while we took the kids and they would back out.

00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:53.280
Wow.

00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:53.840
Okay.

00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:55.039
Okay.

00:43:55.280 --> 00:43:55.679
All right.

00:43:55.840 --> 00:43:58.480
So you're doing ministry, you're killing it.

00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:01.440
Uh tell me about like that.

00:44:01.599 --> 00:44:05.280
Um, we're gonna wrap this up here in like 10 minutes, and we're gonna have to come back for a part two.

00:44:05.440 --> 00:44:14.480
Uh, but like give me the part where you um you make a difference in South Sudan, or like what was the biggest win in South Sudan?

00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:31.840
So the biggest win in South Sudan, I would say, was um I have currently, even till right now, I have two daughters that we support full time and they're missionaries in South Sudan now.

00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:34.000
Wait, now right now, right now.

00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:37.199
They're not literally my daughters, but they're Sudanese girls.

00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:37.599
Okay.

00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:39.119
And um love them.

00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:40.320
They're they became my daughters.

00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:41.360
Did you still talk to them?

00:44:41.519 --> 00:44:42.079
Yeah, yeah.

00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:45.360
And uh, and so we're still really hard to do.

00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:46.400
Like, did you rescue them?

00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:47.519
We did, yeah.

00:44:47.679 --> 00:44:49.440
Uh we we Like how did you do that?

00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:50.159
Like what happened?

00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:52.559
They were just part of a load of we came out wrong.

00:44:52.719 --> 00:45:04.000
They were part of a load of kids that we brought over, and uh we dropped them off at the UN tent over near BD BD, and uh these two girls were so afraid, so afraid, and they're like, Oh uh, picked them up.

00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:05.679
I was like, hey, it's okay, it's good.

00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:12.000
And so when you drop them off at a UN tent, there's a lot, there's so it sounds okay.

00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:14.880
This sounds, I'm only giving you the highlights.

00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:34.159
Yeah, this is this stuff is full of a lot of boring and a lot of paperwork and a lot of admin and a lot of just uh so during the uh I just I had the girls, we were at the tent, my kids came and they were playing with each other because my wife and kids are great, they're part of the survivor team, right?

00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:47.679
They're part of that therapeutic team, and and it's like when you've just instantly fallen in love and you're like, I love these girls, but we couldn't adopt them because you can't adopt them because you don't know who their parents are, they might have parents, there's a lot of laws there.

00:45:47.920 --> 00:46:01.119
Um, and so as they were going through the tents, like they were they had to get medical checked and paperwork, and they you know, they go over here and there's like indexing, trying to find families, because there's a lot of people.

00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:04.800
Um, and we just attached to this these two girls.

00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:11.840
Um, and then we ended up getting them over to Rhino camp because it was close to where our family stayed, uh, and just loved on them.

00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:14.400
And then eventually they they moved with us to Arua.

00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:16.159
Arua.

00:46:16.480 --> 00:46:16.880
Where's that?

00:46:16.960 --> 00:46:18.239
Is that South San Still?

00:46:18.559 --> 00:46:20.639
Nope, that's northern Uganda where my family was staying.

00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:21.519
Okay, got it.

00:46:21.599 --> 00:46:23.280
All right, so they stay with you.

00:46:23.440 --> 00:46:25.119
How long were you there before you left?

00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:27.519
We were there for eight months.

00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:41.199
Um and we were there for eight months, and then we we did some other stuff, and it was high risk out in the Nuba mountain ranges.

00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:47.039
Uh but we yeah, we went to Nuba for a little bit.

00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:48.159
What's where is that?

00:46:48.480 --> 00:46:50.320
It's in between Sudan and South Sudan.

00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:51.920
Of course, the Nuba mountain range.

00:46:52.159 --> 00:47:01.199
It's uh and um that's where they're actively trying to kill North Sudan is actively trying to genocide all the Nubans.

00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:03.199
You know, there's Darfur, everyone knows about Darfur.

00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:04.880
Oh, yeah, Darfur is like darkness.

00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:09.599
Not a lot of people are are realizing that the same thing is happening in the Nuba in the Nuba Mountains.

00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:15.119
Okay, and those are the Christians, so we went over there in order to support the Christians and help with all this and all that.

00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:21.760
And um again, sounds exciting, but we were just there having coffees and talking about Jesus.

00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:24.880
Except that there's people trying to kill you.

00:47:25.119 --> 00:47:26.719
Yeah, there's that.

00:47:27.199 --> 00:47:28.880
All right, I'm gonna pause you.

00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:34.079
We're gonna come back because I want to how long before you get to the actual Ukraine?

00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:43.440
Um, we ended up moving to Ethiopia uh when they had that conflict with uh and then uh we of course you did.

00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:47.360
Then we went to Thailand uh because of all the Burma stuff.

00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:49.599
Uh came back and then we moved to Ukraine.

00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:50.159
Okay.

00:47:50.239 --> 00:47:51.760
All right, I'm gonna pause you right there.

00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:52.639
We're gonna come back.

00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:54.000
This is definitely needs a part two.

00:47:54.159 --> 00:47:56.000
We definitely need way more time with you.

00:47:56.239 --> 00:47:58.880
And um I do want to put this out there.

00:47:58.960 --> 00:48:00.639
Yeah, this is the highlight stuff.

00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:02.480
It's it's so yeah, it's so boring.

00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:03.519
It's I I understand.

00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:05.360
In reality, it kind of is.

00:48:05.599 --> 00:48:11.280
Hey, if you want to live a really boring life, saving everybody in the world, traveling around the globe, talk to Bruno.

00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:15.440
I make it sound exciting.

00:48:15.519 --> 00:48:17.440
It's yeah, it's so boring.

00:48:17.679 --> 00:48:19.760
All right, hey, listen, we're gonna come back.

00:48:19.840 --> 00:48:22.320
We we got it, we're gonna get to Bruno uh next time.

00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:26.800
So like lock this in, stay tuned, come back.

00:48:27.440 --> 00:48:32.079
And or if you know, if you just came on this late, you can just hit hit play in the next one.

00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:33.920
Um, but man, I'm really excited about this.

00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:39.840
If if you got any questions for us between now and the next time, just text in at 737-231-0605.

00:48:39.920 --> 00:48:49.280
We'd love your questions on sex trafficking, love your questions on how to change the world in a very boring way by traveling the world and saving people's lives.

00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:49.840
All right.

00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:52.880
Thanks very much for watching from our house of yours.

00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:54.239
Have an awesome week.