May 22, 2025
How the Spirit Outshines the Law
Have a question or comment for Pastor Plek or one of his guests. Send it here. 357: What if your greatest struggle isn't with God, but with trusting the Holy Spirit working in others? In this revealing conversation, Pastor Plec and Nicole explore the often-misunderstood role of the Holy Spirit in transforming believers and healing church relationships. At the heart of the episode is a powerful insight: many church conflicts stem from our tendency to trust our own judgment rather than recogniz...
Have a question or comment for Pastor Plek or one of his guests. Send it here.
357: What if your greatest struggle isn't with God, but with trusting the Holy Spirit working in others? In this revealing conversation, Pastor Plec and Nicole explore the often-misunderstood role of the Holy Spirit in transforming believers and healing church relationships. At the heart of the episode is a powerful insight: many church conflicts stem from our tendency to trust our own judgment rather than recognizing the Holy Spirit at work in other believers. "You don't have to trust me or the elders," Pastor Plec explains. "You've got to trust the Holy Spirit working in and through the leadership of the church." This perspective shift offers healing for those carrying church hurt and disappointment. Whether you're wrestling with church trust issues, feeling stuck in performance-based Christianity, or simply want to understand the Holy Spirit's role better, this conversation offers fresh perspective and practical wisdom.
Got questions? Text us at 737-231-0605!
Like, share, and subscribe! We love seeing and responding to your reviews and comments.
Support the show: https://wbcc.churchcenter.com/giving
00:00 - Introduction to Holy Spirit Topic
05:42 - Nicole's Church Experience Journey
13:08 - Paul's Question of Recommendation
20:55 - Trust Issues in Church Community
27:32 - Holy Spirit's Ministry Outglories the Law
35:03 - Being Transformed by Unveiled Glory
WEBVTT
00:00:05.330 --> 00:00:07.655
and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
00:00:07.655 --> 00:00:09.759
I'm your host, pastor plec, and join me in studios.
00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:12.826
None other than miss super trooper nicole troop.
00:00:12.826 --> 00:00:15.672
Uh, so glad you joined us thank you so much.
00:00:15.711 --> 00:00:20.890
I'm glad to be here yeah, so, uh, this week we talked about the holy spirit and not something I don't.
00:00:20.890 --> 00:00:34.162
It's not like we're like the super church that finally talked about the holy spirit, but it's not one of those subjects that comes up a ton, but it definitely comes up and it needs to come up because I think there's a part of us that don't really wrap our heads around correctly about the Holy Spirit.
00:00:34.162 --> 00:00:44.531
Now, nicole, for you, growing up, did you have any experience with the Holy Spirit in terms of church background?
00:00:44.531 --> 00:00:49.109
No, all right, so was that because you didn't go to church at all?
00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:56.530
Yeah, I didn't know what the Holy Spirit really was until I became a Christian when I was in high school.
00:00:56.750 --> 00:00:56.951
Okay.
00:00:57.341 --> 00:00:58.585
I never really even heard of it?
00:00:58.700 --> 00:01:00.447
What kind of church did you go to in high school?
00:01:01.979 --> 00:01:03.505
So non-denominational.
00:01:03.505 --> 00:01:04.790
That was secretly Baptist.
00:01:04.790 --> 00:01:06.888
Okay, yeah, you can probably call yeah A lot of us.
00:01:07.540 --> 00:01:08.102
Yeah, okay.
00:01:08.102 --> 00:01:16.287
So when I hit 22, I got saved at a non-denominational church, or really, you know, it's kind of, if you, when did I actually get saved?
00:01:16.287 --> 00:01:19.926
I think sometimes it's at eight, but I really dedicated my life to the Lord at 22.
00:01:19.926 --> 00:01:38.010
And, um, it was in Louisville, kentucky, at Southeast Christian church, and then I immediately left that church because I was in the army and I ended up in North Carolina, in Fayetteville, which was an army town, and I started trying out all these different churches.
00:01:38.010 --> 00:01:46.381
I went to a Methodist church, I went to a charismatic church, I went to a Baptist church, I went to any kind of, and I didn't know one church from another.
00:01:46.381 --> 00:01:49.667
I was like this is a new experience.
00:01:50.489 --> 00:02:03.299
And, um, I went to all sorts and one at one church, you know, it was, uh, an experience where, like, people started falling all over themselves.
00:02:03.299 --> 00:02:14.131
I mean, it looked like they were having a seizure and they were shaking and somebody brought a blanket over them and then they said they had gold dust in their hands and I was like what is happening?
00:02:14.131 --> 00:02:16.507
It was a wild experience.
00:02:16.507 --> 00:02:18.347
That was a wild experience.
00:02:18.347 --> 00:02:22.831
And then I went to other churches where it looked like there was no spirit.
00:02:22.831 --> 00:02:28.105
I wasn't sure if everybody was alive in the church, and so it really brought up.
00:02:28.426 --> 00:02:57.568
you know, for me something I had to learn or figure out is, you know, a lot of people have different understandings of the Holy Spirit, his power and all of that, and so that was one of the things that over the past 20 plus years of being a Christian or being dedicated to Jesus, I've been really sort of wrestling with like what does it mean to who is the Holy Spirit, what does it mean to engage him and seek him, and all that?
00:02:57.568 --> 00:03:07.437
And we talked about that in this letter to Corinth that Paul goes to the reference of the Holy Spirit over and over again.
00:03:08.079 --> 00:03:14.812
And what I loved about this is he gives up this rhetorical question, which I always think is funny.
00:03:14.812 --> 00:03:16.301
I love Paul's rhetorical questions.
00:03:16.301 --> 00:03:17.224
They're so ridiculous.
00:03:17.224 --> 00:03:25.139
But at the same time, if he's having to ask it with the definite, like you know what the answer is because it's a rhetorical question, with the definite, like you know what the answer is because it's a rhetorical question, I thought it was funny.
00:03:25.139 --> 00:03:57.810
So the rhetorical question he asks is do we need letters from you or to you, letters of recommendation from you or to you, which I know this sounds wild, but you got to think about how wild this was, Because it wasn't like people didn't know Paul's story, Like I'm sure at some point he shared with them his testimony that he would go around killing off Christians, rounding them up, sentencing them to their death At some point he had to share that right.
00:03:57.860 --> 00:03:59.306
I don't think he was shy about that.
00:03:59.306 --> 00:04:02.159
It comes up several times in many of these letters.
00:04:02.401 --> 00:04:05.770
It's like all the time and so okay, so he shared that.
00:04:05.770 --> 00:04:13.372
But the thing is wild is like Jesus meets him personally and says you know why are you persecuting?
00:04:13.372 --> 00:04:14.294
He's like who are you Lord?
00:04:14.294 --> 00:04:15.986
So I know who I'm persecuting.
00:04:15.986 --> 00:04:18.329
He's like I'm Jesus of Nazareth and he's like, oh, oops.
00:04:18.329 --> 00:04:28.692
And then he's blinded, and then he's taken to a house and you've got to imagine, the dudes that were with Paul were pretty freaked out.
00:04:29.113 --> 00:04:29.274
Yeah.
00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:33.612
Like he had some sort of vision and now he's blind, all right.
00:04:33.612 --> 00:04:38.490
But then this random dude from Paul's perspective, this has got to be wild.
00:04:38.490 --> 00:04:42.269
He stays at this house, he's fasting, praying, god, reveal yourself to me.
00:04:42.269 --> 00:04:44.365
And Ananias shows up.
00:04:44.365 --> 00:04:51.163
And Ananias had been, and you know Ananias had been, had been, visited by Jesus in a dream.
00:04:51.163 --> 00:04:52.487
He doesn't know that, but Jesus told Ananias like hey, go to Saul.
00:04:52.487 --> 00:04:53.752
He's on straight street and open his eyes.
00:04:53.752 --> 00:04:56.521
And he's like that guy's like persecuting your people.
00:04:56.521 --> 00:04:59.826
He's like I know and I'll show him how much he has to suffer for my name.
00:04:59.826 --> 00:05:01.470
It's wild, like that's all in there, okay.
00:05:01.810 --> 00:05:27.326
Then ananias goes and then lays hands on him and then he uh, threw the laying on his hands, the scales fall off and then he's given the gift of the holy spirit yeah now, I don't know what it was like for the corinthian church to receive the holy spirit, but you have to imagine that it was pretty intense or something, but it wasn't as intense as that.
00:05:27.747 --> 00:05:32.913
No, well, and I think that's kind of the like.
00:05:32.913 --> 00:05:35.160
Everyone's faith experience is different right.
00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:46.420
And like how you come to faith is different, like some people are like on death's doorstep and coming to faith, you know.
00:05:46.420 --> 00:05:52.507
Some people are living in white suburban America and coming to faith, you know.
00:05:52.507 --> 00:05:58.505
Or some of us are teenagers who don't know anything about life and coming to faith, you know.
00:05:58.505 --> 00:05:59.423
And so it's just like.
00:05:59.423 --> 00:06:13.699
I think it's different and you often say, like everybody comes to Christ in a crisis, right, whatever, the whatever the crisis is you know, and it doesn't have to be my life is falling apart kind of crisis.
00:06:14.081 --> 00:06:32.966
It could be an identity crisis, you know, and I think and I think that's true here Like the way that we experience the Holy spirit is different, the gifts that we receive from God are different, and like, even even like Pentecost, like when the, the apostles, the 12, receive Right.
00:06:32.966 --> 00:06:34.726
And they describe what that's like.
00:06:34.726 --> 00:06:37.134
Like Paul's experience is vastly different from that.
00:06:37.134 --> 00:06:41.170
It's still pretty intense, but like the experience is very different, right, you know?
00:06:41.940 --> 00:06:55.483
But what I think about is if the corinthians, like whoever kind of like, they were saved at one point, or they were saved, they're saved, and then all of a sudden they start to distrust paul, for whatever reason.
00:06:56.264 --> 00:07:18.382
I think if they had in their I don't know front of mind his story, there would be less likelihood of distrust because you're like God operated in his life in this way at that time and you'd say I may not trust Paul, but I do trust the God who saved him.
00:07:18.382 --> 00:07:37.095
And I think that the reason why we struggle with relationships in the Christian church is we forget that God has a calling and a specific mission for people, independent of our relationship with one another.
00:07:37.095 --> 00:07:56.168
But what happens is we've, since we forget that, we then put distrust between us and that other person because you person, because they say things, they do things, whatever the thing, like with Paul's case, he said he was coming, but he didn't come and they're like oh, we can't trust you, your word is no longer good around here.
00:07:56.168 --> 00:07:56.971
And he's like what?
00:07:56.971 --> 00:07:59.139
How can my word be no longer good?
00:07:59.461 --> 00:08:01.865
Do you think that the enemy is at all involved in people's forgetting?
00:08:01.865 --> 00:08:05.235
Oh, absolutely, I feel like the enemy is at all involved in people's forgetting.
00:08:05.716 --> 00:08:09.444
Oh, absolutely, I feel like the enemy is always trying remember.
00:08:09.444 --> 00:08:18.723
If in chapter two it said do not let satan outwit you, yeah, because we are not ignorant of his schemes.
00:08:18.723 --> 00:08:31.415
Which means satan has a actual plan which involves taking down the bride of Christ and that has to deal with forgiveness and he'll use whatever it is.
00:08:31.576 --> 00:08:32.279
he can get Right.
00:08:32.279 --> 00:08:41.634
So, whatever weakness of thought is in your mind, he can use that against you, to turn you against the people in your church community.
00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:50.947
Because if he could remember, if Jesus said I pray that they'd be one as you, father, and I are one, I in them, church community, right, because if he could remember, if Jesus said I pray that they'd be one as you, father and I are one, I and them, they and me, we're all one, perfect unity.
00:08:50.947 --> 00:08:52.767
Like that sort of mindset.
00:08:52.767 --> 00:09:06.729
When they can get, or when Satan can get in between believers and make us fight ourselves, then the battle is no longer for souls that are lost, it's about the integrity of a local church.
00:09:06.729 --> 00:09:16.799
And that's exactly what was going on in Corinth and Paul is saying listen, the Holy Spirit has commended my ministry and you are proof of that.
00:09:16.899 --> 00:09:19.205
I recently had a conversation with a guy.
00:09:19.205 --> 00:09:24.490
I actually led to Christ and he left the church for whatever reason, and he's trying to.
00:09:24.490 --> 00:09:26.706
He's talking about coming back and he's having.
00:09:26.706 --> 00:09:31.864
He's having a hard time, you know, wrapping his head around events that led to his walking away.
00:09:31.864 --> 00:09:34.149
And I said it all comes down to the thing of trust.
00:09:34.149 --> 00:09:38.552
You don't trust necessarily me or the elders of the church.
00:09:38.552 --> 00:09:45.893
You've got to trust the Holy Spirit working in and through the leadership of the church, and this is where all church hurt stems from.
00:09:45.893 --> 00:09:58.672
Is people go those people and you look at the bad things or whatever, and you don't say I trust the Holy Spirit working in them because God will not let them go beyond what his will is.
00:09:58.672 --> 00:10:07.145
Now, to be fair, there are people at our church that have come from churches that are gay, affirming At one point they were, that's bad that have come from, like churches that are gay affirming.
00:10:07.166 --> 00:10:07.426
Like they are.
00:10:07.426 --> 00:10:08.006
They at one point they were.
00:10:08.006 --> 00:10:09.208
That's bad theology, that's like a different.
00:10:09.428 --> 00:10:13.313
I don't think the Holy spirit is present, yeah, and so I get.
00:10:13.313 --> 00:10:22.835
I get the like where do you draw the line on what you think is the thing?
00:10:22.835 --> 00:10:24.039
And that's a difficult, uh question.
00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:29.975
But some question, but something like something that's clearly sin and like it's unrepentant, and engaging in something that's like a questionable leadership call.
00:10:29.995 --> 00:10:42.763
That's where you're like ah man, check yourself before you wreck yourself, because you never know, if God didn't direct that certain decision that you thought, in the moment, shouldn't go that way and then, hindsight being 2020, like, oh, actually it did work out whatever.
00:10:42.763 --> 00:10:57.100
So, anyway, I think that's a struggle that people have in ministry is that they tend to trust their own gut over the Holy Spirit that is guiding the person in leadership in this specific case.
00:10:57.419 --> 00:10:58.503
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:10:58.503 --> 00:11:04.245
So on Sunday you were saying I'm trying to remember exactly what you said, so forgive me if I don't get it right.
00:11:04.245 --> 00:11:05.570
But you.
00:11:05.811 --> 00:11:07.356
You were listening, which gives you a lot of credit.
00:11:07.376 --> 00:11:21.427
I was listening but so so you were saying something about like, uh, you like trusting the person, but also like trusting the holy spirit that lives in that, in that believer.
00:11:21.427 --> 00:11:28.192
And that really struck me, because I I've been on staff here for a little while now.
00:11:28.192 --> 00:11:29.885
And we've had our fair share of conflict.
00:11:29.946 --> 00:11:30.729
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
00:11:31.059 --> 00:11:35.405
And there was one time, forever ago, I was mad at you about something.
00:11:35.405 --> 00:11:42.967
Of course, I don't even remember what it was, to be honest, but I was angry and I was at a women's group talking about it.
00:11:42.967 --> 00:11:46.321
And we're in Claudia Z a chair, as a paid his house yeah.
00:11:46.321 --> 00:11:49.587
Claudia's a paid his house and she looks at me and she's like Nicole.
00:11:50.409 --> 00:12:15.945
Do not give the devil a foothold nice and I'm just like oh, my god that's wild and like she was right, like my anger was a foothold for Satan to work against me in the relationship that I have with you, not only as my lead pastor but, at the time, my boss too, and so that's something that clearly has stuck with me for several years now.
00:12:16.547 --> 00:12:17.962
Well, yeah, In fact, adrienne.
00:12:17.962 --> 00:12:24.251
Well, our little community group I wish Adrienne was up here, but I'll talk about her because I think she's somewhere backstage.
00:12:24.251 --> 00:12:31.565
We were watching this video and it was on this exact thing and the whole premise was don't give the enemy a seat at the table.
00:12:31.565 --> 00:12:41.311
You know, and like there is, the enemy is getting in to your heart and your head through an unforgiveness or whatever conflict in the past.
00:12:41.311 --> 00:12:43.144
And then Adrian just started bawling.
00:12:43.144 --> 00:12:45.321
It was wild and she's like cause.
00:12:45.360 --> 00:13:06.951
That happens right within marriage, within relationships with children, with just across the board, um, and ultimately, what I've had to learn to do and Adrian's had to learn to do with me is is she would say stuff like like um, I may not trust you, but I trust the Holy spirit that's talking to you and that has been encouraging for me on a marriage standpoint.
00:13:06.951 --> 00:13:16.374
And ultimately she knows I'm submitted to the Holy Spirit, I'm submitted to Jesus, which is allowing her to follow me because she knows that I'm spending time with God.
00:13:16.374 --> 00:13:24.114
And so in her moments of friction or whatever, she doesn't necessarily have to trust me.
00:13:24.114 --> 00:13:28.482
She has to trust the Holy Spirit working within.
00:13:28.482 --> 00:13:52.009
I think this would save so many relationships If people just had front of mind someone's salvation experience, when the Spirit of God wrecked a person and they were transformed, or the last time that they saw that person in worship, that person connecting with God in whatever way, because you know that the Lord is working in and through that.
00:13:52.400 --> 00:13:57.128
So, I appreciate you sharing that story Because I do feel like we all go there.
00:13:57.128 --> 00:14:01.030
We all can go to a dark spot when we don't trust the Holy Spirit.
00:14:01.030 --> 00:14:05.491
We trust our ability to discern motives of somebody.
00:14:06.302 --> 00:14:07.647
Yeah, it's trusting in our own wisdom.
00:14:07.647 --> 00:14:13.868
Right, it's the classic Proverbs 3 line of like don't rely on your own understanding.
00:14:13.868 --> 00:14:18.304
Yeah, you know, lean on God's wisdom, that's right, and he'll make your path straight.
00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:19.884
Yeah, trust in the Lord with all your heart.
00:14:19.884 --> 00:14:21.028
Lean on your own understanding.
00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:22.422
Proverbs 3.5.
00:14:22.422 --> 00:14:23.323
He will direct your paths.
00:14:23.884 --> 00:14:36.109
Yeah, so then we talked about how the Holy Spirit's ministry outglories the law and I think this is where.
00:14:36.109 --> 00:14:38.799
And tell me if this, I don't know, if this, I don't know, if it frustrates you at all.
00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:54.779
Sometimes I think people you may have heard people say you need to unhitch from the Old Testament, or like don't worry about the Old Testament, and I'd say, no, the Old Testament reveal is a New Testament concealed and you have to look for how Jesus is being revealed in it over and, over and over again.
00:14:55.961 --> 00:14:58.549
There's always glimpses of the gospel all throughout the Old Testament.
00:14:58.549 --> 00:15:13.297
However, the brightness of Jesus in the New Testament is so glorious and so great that it exceeds the glory of the Old Testament that had a fade to it.
00:15:13.297 --> 00:15:14.826
Here's what the fade that Paul brings up.
00:15:14.826 --> 00:15:18.910
The fade one was that it would be ultimately fulfilled.
00:15:18.910 --> 00:15:25.674
The Old Testament law, specifically the ceremonial law, would be fulfilled when Jesus fulfilled the law law specifically, a ceremonial law would be fulfilled.
00:15:25.936 --> 00:15:29.283
When Jesus fulfilled the law, but then also whenever Moses would have meetings with God.
00:15:29.283 --> 00:15:31.068
His face would glow like Shekinah.
00:15:31.068 --> 00:15:32.110
Glory all over him.
00:15:32.392 --> 00:15:32.552
Yeah.
00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:36.110
But that would fade Mm-hmm.
00:15:36.110 --> 00:15:48.782
And he wore a veil not to protect the Israelites from seeing the shine, although that's what he wore it for originally.
00:15:48.782 --> 00:15:56.191
He then wore it so that they would not notice when it totally faded away, which is sort of wild.
00:15:57.014 --> 00:15:57.274
Interesting.
00:15:58.798 --> 00:15:59.301
Yeah, which is true.
00:15:59.301 --> 00:15:59.461
Right.
00:15:59.461 --> 00:16:08.806
But think about this If I went into the Holy of Holies and I came out with my face glowing, you'd be kind of concerned if you saw me without my face glowing.
00:16:08.806 --> 00:16:11.302
Like oh, it's been a while since he met with God.
00:16:11.302 --> 00:16:12.205
Can I really trust him?
00:16:13.275 --> 00:16:15.523
I think that's probably what Moses was dealing with Like.
00:16:15.523 --> 00:16:28.210
It's been a while, so the only way I could properly illustrate this on Sunday was like that the New Testament is like the sun, whereas the old Testament, uh, and the law, is like the moon.
00:16:28.210 --> 00:16:34.794
Like the moon, it gave a little bit of revelation of who God is, and it was really helpful, especially for a world groping in darkness.
00:16:34.794 --> 00:16:44.106
But ultimately, the sun that provides heat, and it's so much brighter it I don't say it puts it to shame, but it out glories the moon by a million fold.
00:16:44.106 --> 00:16:57.840
Yeah, this one piece, though, and I would love to hear what you thought about this, cause I kind of talk about the way that Jesus fulfilled the different parts of the law yes, ceremonial law, moral law, civil law, did you, did you catch that?
00:16:57.840 --> 00:16:59.335
I did catch that, okay, did.
00:16:59.335 --> 00:17:00.998
Was that something that you'd heard before?
00:17:01.778 --> 00:17:03.601
I mean you've talked about the different laws before.
00:17:03.782 --> 00:17:05.545
Okay, so the ceremonial law.
00:17:05.545 --> 00:17:08.450
Jesus fulfilled the ceremonial law Right.
00:17:10.095 --> 00:17:12.201
In other words, remember when Jesus which is the high priest?
00:17:12.221 --> 00:17:25.003
that stuff, yeah yeah, it's like don't wear polyester, don't eat pigs, men get circumcised, you know, like that kind of law that's purely.
00:17:25.003 --> 00:17:34.227
The purpose of the ceremonial law was to make Israel distinct from the rest of the nations to keep it ceremonially pure.
00:17:34.907 --> 00:17:38.682
Well, jesus said I didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill the law.
00:17:38.682 --> 00:17:44.182
So he doesn't abolish the Old Testament ceremonial law, he fulfills that.
00:17:44.182 --> 00:17:52.962
But then there are some laws that exist beyond the Old Testament, like don't murder, still a thing.
00:17:52.962 --> 00:17:57.837
But what Jesus did is he did something that's sort of wild.
00:17:57.837 --> 00:18:02.395
He elevated the hatred you could have in your heart to that of murder.
00:18:02.936 --> 00:18:05.501
He elevated the lust you could have in your heart to that of murder.
00:18:05.501 --> 00:18:08.608
He elevated the lust you could have in your heart to adultery.
00:18:08.608 --> 00:18:16.465
And so when Jesus goes to the cross, every person finds themselves dead in their sin.
00:18:16.465 --> 00:18:21.767
But the Sermon on the Mount is not a nice way to live.
00:18:21.767 --> 00:18:26.683
It's a nice way for everybody else to live, but there's no way that you can do it.
00:18:26.683 --> 00:18:28.279
It's great when everybody else does that.
00:18:28.540 --> 00:18:29.545
They love their enemies.
00:18:29.545 --> 00:18:31.121
They pray for those who persecute them.
00:18:31.121 --> 00:18:32.641
They offer them the other cheek.
00:18:32.641 --> 00:18:36.104
They don't commit lust in their hearts.
00:18:36.104 --> 00:18:38.022
They don't commit murder in their hearts.
00:18:38.022 --> 00:18:41.182
They're just loving all the time and you feel the weight of that on you.
00:18:41.182 --> 00:18:42.537
It'll break you.
00:18:42.777 --> 00:18:43.657
Oh, for sure.
00:18:44.058 --> 00:18:46.502
Like I'm an adulterer, I'm screwed, I'm a murderer.
00:18:46.502 --> 00:18:47.384
What?
00:18:48.404 --> 00:18:49.227
point is there, yeah.
00:18:49.527 --> 00:18:50.509
I'm just going to quit right now.
00:18:50.949 --> 00:18:51.490
I have no hope.
00:18:51.490 --> 00:18:56.792
In fact, Jesus said unless your righteousness exceeds the scribes and the Pharisees, you too cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.
00:18:56.792 --> 00:18:59.584
And then he says be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect.
00:18:59.584 --> 00:19:06.057
Right there you should be just like.
00:19:06.057 --> 00:19:06.898
I give up, and that's sort of the point.
00:19:06.898 --> 00:19:12.096
You can't satisfy it because you can't do it, and that's the whole point of the law was to say that you deserve death.
00:19:12.096 --> 00:19:13.319
That's the whole point of it.
00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:19.763
It's a ministry of condemnation, it's a ministry of death, and it's actually it is a ministry to which everyone's like.
00:19:19.763 --> 00:19:20.246
What do you mean?
00:19:20.246 --> 00:19:20.675
It's a ministry.
00:19:20.875 --> 00:19:25.086
Yeah, that was the part that kind of got me that you were describing it as the Holy Spirit's ministry.
00:19:25.086 --> 00:19:26.500
I was like that's an interesting way.
00:19:26.795 --> 00:19:30.705
So the law has a ministry and its purpose is to show you you can't keep it.
00:19:31.036 --> 00:19:34.025
Then the Holy Spirit says I can do it for you.
00:19:34.025 --> 00:19:36.103
You have no ability to do it, I can do it.
00:19:36.103 --> 00:19:46.090
And so Jesus, when he dies to satisfy the moral law, so the requirements of law, for the wages of sin is death.
00:19:46.090 --> 00:19:49.921
So someone had to die on your behalf, jesus.
00:19:49.921 --> 00:19:52.398
So he dies for the sins that deserve death.
00:19:52.459 --> 00:20:07.983
But then, when he rose to reign and he sent us the Holy Spirit to live under and shape civil law while expanding his kingdom, in the Old Testament the civil law was like you know, if an ox gores your neighbor, you owe them 20 shekels.
00:20:07.983 --> 00:20:16.276
Or if, like, you have to cover up a well, and if somebody else's ox falls into a well that wasn't covered, then you have to pay for the.
00:20:16.276 --> 00:20:21.444
You know, it's that kind of civil liability issue.
00:20:21.444 --> 00:20:25.813
Well, why are we even mentioning that?
00:20:25.813 --> 00:20:27.095
Because that was part of the Old Testament law.
00:20:27.134 --> 00:20:38.323
But God has a civil law that we live under now, but not, I mean, granted, we live under the civil law of the state of Texas and the United States.
00:20:38.323 --> 00:20:39.425
We have to obey those laws.
00:20:39.425 --> 00:20:44.263
There's certain speed limits you have to obey and you're like just can't, I just can't do it because it's too slow.
00:20:44.263 --> 00:20:49.013
Well, the holy spirit gives you the ability to do that, uh, and then.
00:20:49.013 --> 00:20:51.358
But also we have the ability to shape law here, as.
00:20:51.358 --> 00:20:59.324
So what happens here in austin can be done as it would be in heaven, so that there's a reality there that we are trying to inform.
00:20:59.324 --> 00:21:08.018
Shape, uh, law here, because we want to see people ultimately come to understand the love of God and his laws are best.
00:21:08.018 --> 00:21:09.461
His ultimate laws are best.
00:21:09.461 --> 00:21:20.661
Now I think there's some things open to interpretation, like how much somebody should be held liable for whenever your longhorn gores somebody but, that's all part of it.
00:21:20.961 --> 00:21:23.945
So Jesus lived to fulfill the ceremonial law.
00:21:23.945 --> 00:21:25.608
He died to satisfy the moral law.
00:21:25.608 --> 00:21:33.003
He rose to reign and send the Holy spirit to empower us to live under and shape civil law while expanding his kingdom.
00:21:33.003 --> 00:21:33.705
Yep.
00:21:33.705 --> 00:21:36.675
Any other thoughts on that Cause?
00:21:36.675 --> 00:21:38.400
I know that's a lot of it is.
00:21:38.560 --> 00:21:57.970
it is a lot, but I think I I think it kind of goes back to what you were saying earlier about how we shouldn't ignore the Old Testament, because it does point us to Jesus and in order to really understand the full weight and glory of what Jesus did on the cross, we need to understand what the Old Testament requirements were.
00:21:57.970 --> 00:22:05.747
I'm really thankful that I don't have to go to the temple a gajillion times a day to sacrifice all these animals for all the sins that I'm sinning.
00:22:05.847 --> 00:22:06.669
You know yeah.
00:22:06.815 --> 00:22:13.648
Because Jesus did that for me on the cross and his blood covers my sins yesterday, tomorrow and forever.
00:22:13.648 --> 00:22:24.425
So I think, personally I'm a big fan of the Old Testament and I think more people should read it, especially Leviticus.
00:22:24.425 --> 00:22:26.923
I feel like there's lots of Jesus language in Leviticus.
00:22:27.063 --> 00:22:27.505
Oh, wow.
00:22:27.505 --> 00:22:30.901
Yeah, but you know, look at you, leviticus reader.
00:22:30.901 --> 00:22:31.999
You get full credit for that.
00:00:05.330 --> 00:00:07.655
00:00:07.655 --> 00:00:09.759
00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:12.826
00:00:12.826 --> 00:00:15.672
00:00:15.711 --> 00:00:20.890
00:00:20.890 --> 00:00:34.162
00:00:34.162 --> 00:00:44.531
00:00:44.531 --> 00:00:49.109
00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:56.530
00:00:56.750 --> 00:00:56.951
00:00:57.341 --> 00:00:58.585
00:00:58.700 --> 00:01:00.447
00:01:01.979 --> 00:01:03.505
00:01:03.505 --> 00:01:04.790
00:01:04.790 --> 00:01:06.888
00:01:07.540 --> 00:01:08.102
00:01:08.102 --> 00:01:16.287
00:01:16.287 --> 00:01:19.926
00:01:19.926 --> 00:01:38.010
00:01:38.010 --> 00:01:46.381
00:01:46.381 --> 00:01:49.667
00:01:50.489 --> 00:02:03.299
00:02:03.299 --> 00:02:14.131
00:02:14.131 --> 00:02:16.507
00:02:16.507 --> 00:02:18.347
00:02:18.347 --> 00:02:22.831
00:02:22.831 --> 00:02:28.105
00:02:28.426 --> 00:02:57.568
00:02:57.568 --> 00:03:07.437
00:03:08.079 --> 00:03:14.812
00:03:14.812 --> 00:03:16.301
00:03:16.301 --> 00:03:17.224
00:03:17.224 --> 00:03:25.139
00:03:25.139 --> 00:03:57.810
00:03:57.860 --> 00:03:59.306
00:03:59.306 --> 00:04:02.159
00:04:02.401 --> 00:04:05.770
00:04:05.770 --> 00:04:13.372
00:04:13.372 --> 00:04:14.294
00:04:14.294 --> 00:04:15.986
00:04:15.986 --> 00:04:18.329
00:04:18.329 --> 00:04:28.692
00:04:29.113 --> 00:04:29.274
00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:33.612
00:04:33.612 --> 00:04:38.490
00:04:38.490 --> 00:04:42.269
00:04:42.269 --> 00:04:44.365
00:04:44.365 --> 00:04:51.163
00:04:51.163 --> 00:04:52.487
00:04:52.487 --> 00:04:53.752
00:04:53.752 --> 00:04:56.521
00:04:56.521 --> 00:04:59.826
00:04:59.826 --> 00:05:01.470
00:05:01.810 --> 00:05:27.326
00:05:27.747 --> 00:05:32.913
00:05:32.913 --> 00:05:35.160
00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:46.420
00:05:46.420 --> 00:05:52.507
00:05:52.507 --> 00:05:58.505
00:05:58.505 --> 00:05:59.423
00:05:59.423 --> 00:06:13.699
00:06:14.081 --> 00:06:32.966
00:06:32.966 --> 00:06:34.726
00:06:34.726 --> 00:06:37.134
00:06:37.134 --> 00:06:41.170
00:06:41.940 --> 00:06:55.483
00:06:56.264 --> 00:07:18.382
00:07:18.382 --> 00:07:37.095
00:07:37.095 --> 00:07:56.168
00:07:56.168 --> 00:07:56.971
00:07:56.971 --> 00:07:59.139
00:07:59.461 --> 00:08:01.865
00:08:01.865 --> 00:08:05.235
00:08:05.716 --> 00:08:09.444
00:08:09.444 --> 00:08:18.723
00:08:18.723 --> 00:08:31.415
00:08:31.576 --> 00:08:32.279
00:08:32.279 --> 00:08:41.634
00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:50.947
00:08:50.947 --> 00:08:52.767
00:08:52.767 --> 00:09:06.729
00:09:06.729 --> 00:09:16.799
00:09:16.899 --> 00:09:19.205
00:09:19.205 --> 00:09:24.490
00:09:24.490 --> 00:09:26.706
00:09:26.706 --> 00:09:31.864
00:09:31.864 --> 00:09:34.149
00:09:34.149 --> 00:09:38.552
00:09:38.552 --> 00:09:45.893
00:09:45.893 --> 00:09:58.672
00:09:58.672 --> 00:10:07.145
00:10:07.166 --> 00:10:07.426
00:10:07.426 --> 00:10:08.006
00:10:08.006 --> 00:10:09.208
00:10:09.428 --> 00:10:13.313
00:10:13.313 --> 00:10:22.835
00:10:22.835 --> 00:10:24.039
00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:29.975
00:10:29.995 --> 00:10:42.763
00:10:42.763 --> 00:10:57.100
00:10:57.419 --> 00:10:58.503
00:10:58.503 --> 00:11:04.245
00:11:04.245 --> 00:11:05.570
00:11:05.811 --> 00:11:07.356
00:11:07.376 --> 00:11:21.427
00:11:21.427 --> 00:11:28.192
00:11:28.192 --> 00:11:29.885
00:11:29.946 --> 00:11:30.729
00:11:31.059 --> 00:11:35.405
00:11:35.405 --> 00:11:42.967
00:11:42.967 --> 00:11:46.321
00:11:46.321 --> 00:11:49.587
00:11:50.409 --> 00:12:15.945
00:12:16.547 --> 00:12:17.962
00:12:17.962 --> 00:12:24.251
00:12:24.251 --> 00:12:31.565
00:12:31.565 --> 00:12:41.311
00:12:41.311 --> 00:12:43.144
00:12:43.144 --> 00:12:45.321
00:12:45.360 --> 00:13:06.951
00:13:06.951 --> 00:13:16.374
00:13:16.374 --> 00:13:24.114
00:13:24.114 --> 00:13:28.482
00:13:28.482 --> 00:13:52.009
00:13:52.400 --> 00:13:57.128
00:13:57.128 --> 00:14:01.030
00:14:01.030 --> 00:14:05.491
00:14:06.302 --> 00:14:07.647
00:14:07.647 --> 00:14:13.868
00:14:13.868 --> 00:14:18.304
00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:19.884
00:14:19.884 --> 00:14:21.028
00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:22.422
00:14:22.422 --> 00:14:23.323
00:14:23.884 --> 00:14:36.109
00:14:36.109 --> 00:14:38.799
00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:54.779
00:14:55.961 --> 00:14:58.549
00:14:58.549 --> 00:15:13.297
00:15:13.297 --> 00:15:14.826
00:15:14.826 --> 00:15:18.910
00:15:18.910 --> 00:15:25.674
00:15:25.936 --> 00:15:29.283
00:15:29.283 --> 00:15:31.068
00:15:31.068 --> 00:15:32.110
00:15:32.392 --> 00:15:32.552
00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:36.110
00:15:36.110 --> 00:15:48.782
00:15:48.782 --> 00:15:56.191
00:15:57.014 --> 00:15:57.274
00:15:58.798 --> 00:15:59.301
00:15:59.301 --> 00:15:59.461
00:15:59.461 --> 00:16:08.806
00:16:08.806 --> 00:16:11.302
00:16:11.302 --> 00:16:12.205
00:16:13.275 --> 00:16:15.523
00:16:15.523 --> 00:16:28.210
00:16:28.210 --> 00:16:34.794
00:16:34.794 --> 00:16:44.106
00:16:44.106 --> 00:16:57.840
00:16:57.840 --> 00:16:59.335
00:16:59.335 --> 00:17:00.998
00:17:01.778 --> 00:17:03.601
00:17:03.782 --> 00:17:05.545
00:17:05.545 --> 00:17:08.450
00:17:10.095 --> 00:17:12.201
00:17:12.221 --> 00:17:25.003
00:17:25.003 --> 00:17:34.227
00:17:34.907 --> 00:17:38.682
00:17:38.682 --> 00:17:44.182
00:17:44.182 --> 00:17:52.962
00:17:52.962 --> 00:17:57.837
00:17:57.837 --> 00:18:02.395
00:18:02.936 --> 00:18:05.501
00:18:05.501 --> 00:18:08.608
00:18:08.608 --> 00:18:16.465
00:18:16.465 --> 00:18:21.767
00:18:21.767 --> 00:18:26.683
00:18:26.683 --> 00:18:28.279
00:18:28.540 --> 00:18:29.545
00:18:29.545 --> 00:18:31.121
00:18:31.121 --> 00:18:32.641
00:18:32.641 --> 00:18:36.104
00:18:36.104 --> 00:18:38.022
00:18:38.022 --> 00:18:41.182
00:18:41.182 --> 00:18:42.537
00:18:42.777 --> 00:18:43.657
00:18:44.058 --> 00:18:46.502
00:18:46.502 --> 00:18:47.384
00:18:48.404 --> 00:18:49.227
00:18:49.527 --> 00:18:50.509
00:18:50.949 --> 00:18:51.490
00:18:51.490 --> 00:18:56.792
00:18:56.792 --> 00:18:59.584
00:18:59.584 --> 00:19:06.057
00:19:06.057 --> 00:19:06.898
00:19:06.898 --> 00:19:12.096
00:19:12.096 --> 00:19:13.319
00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:19.763
00:19:19.763 --> 00:19:20.246
00:19:20.246 --> 00:19:20.675
00:19:20.875 --> 00:19:25.086
00:19:25.086 --> 00:19:26.500
00:19:26.795 --> 00:19:30.705
00:19:31.036 --> 00:19:34.025
00:19:34.025 --> 00:19:36.103
00:19:36.103 --> 00:19:46.090
00:19:46.090 --> 00:19:49.921
00:19:49.921 --> 00:19:52.398
00:19:52.459 --> 00:20:07.983
00:20:07.983 --> 00:20:16.276
00:20:16.276 --> 00:20:21.444
00:20:21.444 --> 00:20:25.813
00:20:25.813 --> 00:20:27.095
00:20:27.134 --> 00:20:38.323
00:20:38.323 --> 00:20:39.425
00:20:39.425 --> 00:20:44.263
00:20:44.263 --> 00:20:49.013
00:20:49.013 --> 00:20:51.358
00:20:51.358 --> 00:20:59.324
00:20:59.324 --> 00:21:08.018
00:21:08.018 --> 00:21:09.461
00:21:09.461 --> 00:21:20.661
00:21:20.961 --> 00:21:23.945
00:21:23.945 --> 00:21:25.608
00:21:25.608 --> 00:21:33.003
00:21:33.003 --> 00:21:33.705
00:21:33.705 --> 00:21:36.675
00:21:36.675 --> 00:21:38.400
00:21:38.560 --> 00:21:57.970
00:21:57.970 --> 00:22:05.747
00:22:05.847 --> 00:22:06.669
00:22:06.815 --> 00:22:13.648
00:22:13.648 --> 00:22:24.425
00:22:24.425 --> 00:22:26.923
00:22:27.063 --> 00:22:27.505
00:22:27.505 --> 00:22:30.901
00:22:30.901 --> 00:22:31.999